Just A Little Misunderstood...
Wow from those few comments I decided I wasn't as clear as I should have been. So I'm going to try and clarify my position.
1) I'm not saying we can understand everything about GOD. My contention was over what He has revealed in Scripture. We will never fully understand God. In fact we will have all eternity to enjoy trying to figure him out, and the joy of discovering brand new things about God every day for millions and millions of years. So let me clarify this does not relate to God himself, but to his Word, which he wrote to be understood.
2) I agree that there are aspects of the Scripture’s teachings that require faith, but it is not a faith based upon our ignorance of the issue. The example given was the trinity so I will go with it. The trinity is based upon truth mined from Scripture. The Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God - three propositional truths supported by Scripture. God is also one - a propositional truth also supported by Scripture. It is therefore based upon these truths, clearly understood, that the doctrine of the trinity comes from.
3) What can be understood about God is based upon his condescension. I agree we cannot know God as the exalted King of all because he cannot, and will not, fit into our small brains. However, God has chosen to make himself simple to be understood by man, even fallen man. God has come close to us in order that a part of him might be understood. This part is revealed in Scripture.
Wow I didn’t expect the response I got. I hope this clarifies the issue at hand and let’s keep talking about it!
1) I'm not saying we can understand everything about GOD. My contention was over what He has revealed in Scripture. We will never fully understand God. In fact we will have all eternity to enjoy trying to figure him out, and the joy of discovering brand new things about God every day for millions and millions of years. So let me clarify this does not relate to God himself, but to his Word, which he wrote to be understood.
2) I agree that there are aspects of the Scripture’s teachings that require faith, but it is not a faith based upon our ignorance of the issue. The example given was the trinity so I will go with it. The trinity is based upon truth mined from Scripture. The Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God - three propositional truths supported by Scripture. God is also one - a propositional truth also supported by Scripture. It is therefore based upon these truths, clearly understood, that the doctrine of the trinity comes from.
3) What can be understood about God is based upon his condescension. I agree we cannot know God as the exalted King of all because he cannot, and will not, fit into our small brains. However, God has chosen to make himself simple to be understood by man, even fallen man. God has come close to us in order that a part of him might be understood. This part is revealed in Scripture.
Wow I didn’t expect the response I got. I hope this clarifies the issue at hand and let’s keep talking about it!
posted by RJ-77 at 8:36 AM
23 Comments:
I agree 100% RJ. How's that for a stand Ando!!
I'm working on an answer for you beamerpal. I have to do some homework, and I was out of town this weekend...so I'm not ignoring you.
Nice J Crew. You are a rock.
I like what beamerpal is saying here. Yes, God has chosen to reveal Himself to us in the Bible, but does that mean that everything in the Bible can be completely understood by human minds? I agree that it is a question of degree. If everything were simple to understand a) the Christian bookstore industry would not be thriving like it is and b) we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Ok I'm going to throw a question out there since I only have a minute...
But could the lack of understanding be caused less by the whole mystery idea, and more by lack of study and faith?
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I will answer your question, by asking two more questions and then answering those two more questions.
Does lack of understanding stem from lack of study? Yes.
Does devoting ones life to study inherently mean that one would be able to fully comprehend everthing taught in scripture? No.
Again, it's a question of degrees. When does a person get to a point where the lack of understanding is caused more from "mystery" than from studying or not studying?
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beamerpal, I think RJ is getting at the point that too many Christians, and particularly those who are the rank of file of many of our churches, cop out their own study of the Word just to take it as the pastor says it, without studying and working with the text itself. Then when a doctrine that they do not feel comfortable with, or that has been put down from the pulpit is presented to them, they balk and cry "It's beyond our understanding and we should just leave it as a mystery!" without taking time to study context, history, and setting of the text to discern what could be said... this is a huge problem, and I think it is the same kind of Scriptural illiteracy that Luther and the Reformers faced with their congregations that didn't know the Latin, or have access to the Scriptures.
Today people are just too lazy to study for themselves and think about the Word.
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Ahhhh, I wanted to see what they were. Booooooo!
One question to what you're saying Kludge. You have made a propositional truth statement...that this is not as important as seeking God personally and that it causes division, how did you come up with this conclusion?
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My apologies for changing the course of your discussion. I've deleted my comments because I don't want anyone to think I'm being rude.
Is this a record for most deleted posts?
Kludge,
Speaking your mind among friends is never considered rude in my book. I don't care if you completly disagree with me. I want you to say what you think. I will never be offended by your comments! Please always feel free to speak what you think with me.
How about speaking what I think about you? Is that cool?
Ando,
You're right, I don't want to talk about me any more. Let's talk about you. What do you think of me?
I think you're neat.
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