Whether Jew or Gentile
So Kludge and I have been responding to each other via the comments for Whoa!, check 'em out if you wanna catch up, and I want to raise his question for the general public. Does God deal differently with the Jews than with the Gentiles? My initial response is to say 'no way' but I have to give is some consideration.
The first consideration is this - What do we mean by God dealing differently? It is true that God has dealt differently with the Jews than with the Gentiles. But how has God dealt differently?
And the second - Does how God deals with Jews apply directly to their salvation? In other words is something different required of the Jews than the Gentiles for salvation?
So let me know what you guys are thinking and we'll see how big of a fire this one starts!
The first consideration is this - What do we mean by God dealing differently? It is true that God has dealt differently with the Jews than with the Gentiles. But how has God dealt differently?
And the second - Does how God deals with Jews apply directly to their salvation? In other words is something different required of the Jews than the Gentiles for salvation?
So let me know what you guys are thinking and we'll see how big of a fire this one starts!
posted by RJ-77 at 6:06 AM
18 Comments:
I think that regardless of if you are a Jew or Gentile, that the only way to salvation is through faith. The OT saints looked forward to Messiah while the NT saints look back to Christ who is the Messiah.
The law one is a little more interesting. It seems to me that Romans 2 tells us that the whole point of the law was to bring the knowledge of sin and point people to the truth that they can't save themselves, which is why they need Christ.
If that is true J Crew, why were the Jews still following the law after Christ died? Why didn't He let the early church know in Acts when he appeared to them. "By the way, you guys can have pork now"
It seems to me it still had a place after the death of Jesus, as far as the early church was concered. So it must have a place now.
I thought that in Acts when the angel appeared to Peter, that he told him to kill and eat because they didn't have to anymore because now they have the law of Christ in them. It seems to me that the writer of Hebrews is telling the Hebrews that they need to look to Christ and not to law anymore because Christ has established it.
I remember Peter's dinner with the Centurian. And basicly that is what the angel told him.
I just don't understand, if it was important, why that wasn't it relayed when Christ was in counsel with his apostles after his resurection. It clearly was a point of contention in the early church when Peter returned from the gentiles house. It makes things so much more confusing. Because now we can all pick out verses to prove one side or the other and not really come to a resolution.
The point I'm getting at this; that if it is important Christ already relayed it to us. Not in a hidden way but straight forward and repeatedly. It dosen't matter if I don't understand his relationship with God the father, or if the trinity exists, only that I have to accept him to be holy before God. It doesn't matter if I know why it was okay for Israel to slay their enemies, only that Christ told me to love my neighbor as myself.
It's not that important, as long as we know that I will keep participating in the debate.
Wow - Summer Steph is processing things - RJ's blog makes me think (and sometimes confuses things for me - maybe because RJ is a Holiness/Wesleyan??? - just kidding!!!!!!)
Seriously RJ - and fellow commentors - it is good for me to think through and process these thoughts - I will post when I have more to add - thanks for making me think!
SJ,
I hope I'm not confusing you! I want to make everything as clear as possible.
Kludge,
In Acts 10 the Jews were told, 'Hey you guys can eat pork now'. Jesus also established the same when he said food does not defile a man (Mark 7:19).
What do you think?
RJ,
Just was giving you a hard time - what I really was saying was that I enjoying reading your blog - makes me think and chew on things. That is a positive thing and I enjoy reading the comments and hearing others thoughts and perspectives. Competely a good thing! Thanks and keep posting! Jeremy and I will be home in a week with homemade apple butter - tell Julie hi for me!
okay, I've been avoiding this.
Genesis 9:3-4, “Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.”
We know from Acts we are required to abide by this as Gentiles, with 3 others, but the Jews had something like over 500 commandments that they were suppose to follow before Christ died.
Where does it say they were suppose to stop observing those?
anybody read the Good News magazine? They take the Bible literally (they don't believe in any holidays... only the festivals, etc)... and they lean that direction... if it's not spelled out then you have to be careful.
Is the law meaningless? I don't think so... which begs the question, can you pick and choose what counts now, after Christ, or does all of it still "count" unless God's word clearly says no?
Every time I read one of those Good News articles I feel like I should change a lot of things...
Kludge,
I just want to ask a few questions so I know what/how you're thinking:
1) Do Christian Jews have to keep the law?
2) Does keeping the Law save Jews?
3) If a Gentile kept the Law would he be saved like a Jew?
Let me know what you think.
RJ-
Sometimes I don't even know what I'm thinking. My point is that I'm not sure about the answer, and I'm not sure anyone is. Mr. Righteousness was positive he was right. I just don't think the Bible gives us all the answers. I believe that it give us all we need though.
Kludge,
Not to keep hitting you up with questions but permit me to ask another.
Is clarity on the gospel something we need?
Grape!
Grape's my favorite! or Cherry...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Salvation has always come by faith. Hebrews 11 tells us that Abel was saved by faith, Abraham was saved by faith, Moses was saved by faith. The Law shows us our need for grace. The Jews are God's chosen people through whom He has blessed the world and to whom he will keep His covenants, but whether Jew or Gentile no one comes to the Father but through Christ.
but that wasn't the debate was it...? I think we all get that.
But what about the Law... What Kludgemaster and I were throwing out there was the notion of certain aspects of the Law being followed and others not... like eating pork or the festivals, etc... Or maybe I'm the only one, I haven't had much sleep in the past month and I could be dreaming...
Brad -
I'm done with this one. I've turned my brain to mush.
pork = good, sin = bad.
When are you going to break down and get a blog. I'm thinking you have lots of things to say! :)
oh I have a lot to say alright, but I feel like a dot.com startup at this point.... I'd be coming in too late in the game and I would blow all of my venture capital money and then layoff my staff... no sir! I'm not doing that again...
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